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Post by Tofu DeBeast on Apr 15, 2012 16:50:35 GMT -5
I've got no problem with the raising of livestock as a food source. However, if we are to exploit the domestication of whole species for food, I think the least we should do in order to morally justify it, is to treat the animals concerned with a bit of fucking dignity while they are alive. Intensive farming as it is today, leaves much to be desired. Afew years ago, there was a disease that killed an awful lot of sheep. Then some bright spark came up with a brainwave, to get rid of all the carcasses. They were kiln dried, and ground up into pellets and cake, then . . . (And this is the real perversion) FED TO CATTLE! Now, dead, sick sheep were never, ever meant to be part of a Cow's diet. But what the fuck, they all thought, "Who cares? They're only fucking Cattle. The Sheep's disease was called "Scrapie". But it crossed over into the Cows as B.S.E. (Well, fuck me, who'd have thought . . . ) Then passed into the Human food chain, through the disgusting practice of "Mechanically recovering "meat products". This consists of taking the butchered carcasses of cows, sheep, chickens, turkeys, whatever, after all the meat had been taken off and subjecting them to high pressure water jets that blast every last bit of soft tissue away from the bone, so they could make cheap burgers, sausages, and mince from the grey organic sludge that was left behind when the water was drained away. However, the cows that had eaten the sick sheep, passed the sickness on to us, through their mashed up brains and spinal cords, as C.J.D. A delightful little syndrome with an up to 20 year incubation period, that leads to irreversible brain and neurological degeneration in humans. It gets worse. The symptoms of CJD are identical to Alzhiemer's, in the elderly. And Alzhiemer's sufferers usually die from other causes. Like "Old Age". Death certificate says "Natural causes" Which requires no inquest. But when, on occasion, an autopsy has been carried out on someone who has Alzhiemers, upon examination of the brain, it has been found that the patient has advanced CJD. From eating infected beef in the 1980s. This uncomfortable fact is whitewashed by the Medical Community, who have adopted a policy of "not stating Alzheimer's as a cause of death". This ensures the body will not have to undergo an autopsy involving examination of the brain. Because examination of the brain is the only way to differentiate between CJD and Alzhiemer's. Because a CJD sufferer has huge holes in the brain that Alzhiemer's sufferers don't have. But because they're diagnosed with Alzhiemer's, (which doesn't 'cause' death) the brain is rarely looked at. Levels of Alzhiemers, and Parkinsonism, (both of which share primary symptoms with CJD) have dramatically risen over the past 20 years. So no-one knows for sure the extent that "New Variant" CJD has become endemic in the population, solely because no-one cares to look! If we are to continue to safely eat Cows and Sheep, then the Cows and Sheep must be allowed a more a natural diet. Grass or cereal based would be ideal. Diet based around dead, sick animals, must be off the menu. Shouldn't really need fucking saying, should it? Even worse, BSE/CJD is caused by self-replicating proteins called "prions". Since they are just proteins and not living organisms like bacteria, or pseudo-living like viruses, they cannot be sterilized in the normal ways. Cooking meat is not enough to get rid of it. The only way to totally get rid of it is to burn it to ash. Like you said, don't grind up old/sick farm animals and feed it to other farm animals and this would become a non-issue. |
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Post by admin on Apr 15, 2012 16:51:30 GMT -5
Here in the U.S. they grow fish and stock the lakes. Fishing license fees go largely to pay for the hatcheries. Also there are catch limits on number and size, you can't keep fish between x and y inches because that is prime breeding size. Very noble. But if you scale that up to feed millions and apply similar rules to trawlers, all you get is the wrong kind of fish getting thrown back, probably dead, to appease distant bureaucrats and pious greenies who have never been on a boat in their life. You get the Scottish fishing industry thriving - with Spanish boats, Spanish crews unloading their politically correct catches onto Spanish trucks driven by Spanish drivers ... you get that great fishing nation Belgium allowed to take more fish from the Irish sea than the UK..... TOO MANY PEOPLE. Sorry to rant, but this place used to be fun. Now it's like the Junior Debating Society. Okay, going to my room now. |
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Post by StormInateacup on Apr 15, 2012 16:58:28 GMT -5
Then "we" can eat more fucking rice and beans. The resources of the planet are finite...and the numbers of we humans on it seems to have no upper limit. Esp in the west where we are insisting they advance medical science to allow us to live a lot more than our basic biology would have allowed us to. It's not OK that people in the third world are dying of starvation so that we in the privileged cities of the west might get our meat and three veg a day. It's not OK that my kids will grow up to hand onto theirs a dead planet with no beauty or freedom or hope left on it. If that's preachy then so be it. Too many WE. Soylent Green. Hell yes. They'll eat the poor if they have to -0 and if they think they can get away with it. Half the world get most of their protein from insects. Spiders and cockroaches, And yes rats. Squirrels. Other inconsiderable options to most in our society. The white man's burden will be that he is too squeamish to eat what the goddess gave him to survive when Monsanto own all the patents to the food crops and there are no more deer on the hillsides to shoot or salmon in the rivers to angle for. They will demand meat -The kind of meat they can kid they recognise and they'll be sold a meat product. That may well turn out to be Aunty Mavis - but hell what we don't know right? The risk of being forced into cannibalism by a duplicitous and immoral corporation is so much more appealing to most of us that the notion of eating a spider. I've had spiders. In Thailand they're a bit of a mountain local delicacy. They're not half bad. |
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Post by bigwillybear on Apr 15, 2012 17:01:18 GMT -5
I've got no problem with the raising of livestock as a food source. However, if we are to exploit the domestication of whole species for food, I think the least we should do in order to morally justify it, is to treat the animals concerned with a bit of fucking dignity while they are alive. Intensive farming as it is today, leaves much to be desired. Afew years ago, there was a disease that killed an awful lot of sheep. Then some bright spark came up with a brainwave, to get rid of all the carcasses. They were kiln dried, and ground up into pellets and cake, then . . . (And this is the real perversion) FED TO CATTLE! Now, dead, sick sheep were never, ever meant to be part of a Cow's diet. But what the fuck, they all thought, "Who cares? They're only fucking Cattle. The Sheep's disease was called "Scrapie". But it crossed over into the Cows as B.S.E. (Well, fuck me, who'd have thought . . . ) Then passed into the Human food chain, through the disgusting practice of "Mechanically recovering "meat products". This consists of taking the butchered carcasses of cows, sheep, chickens, turkeys, whatever, after all the meat had been taken off and subjecting them to high pressure water jets that blast every last bit of soft tissue away from the bone, so they could make cheap burgers, sausages, and mince from the grey organic sludge that was left behind when the water was drained away. However, the cows that had eaten the sick sheep, passed the sickness on to us, through their mashed up brains and spinal cords, as C.J.D. A delightful little syndrome with an up to 20 year incubation period, that leads to irreversible brain and neurological degeneration in humans. It gets worse. The symptoms of CJD are identical to Alzhiemer's, in the elderly. And Alzhiemer's sufferers usually die from other causes. Like "Old Age". Death certificate says "Natural causes" Which requires no inquest. But when, on occasion, an autopsy has been carried out on someone who has Alzhiemers, upon examination of the brain, it has been found that the patient has advanced CJD. From eating infected beef in the 1980s. This uncomfortable fact is whitewashed by the Medical Community, who have adopted a policy of "not stating Alzheimer's as a cause of death". This ensures the body will not have to undergo an autopsy involving examination of the brain. Because examination of the brain is the only way to differentiate between CJD and Alzhiemer's. Because a CJD sufferer has huge holes in the brain that Alzhiemer's sufferers don't have. But because they're diagnosed with Alzhiemer's, (which doesn't 'cause' death) the brain is rarely looked at. Levels of Alzhiemers, and Parkinsonism, (both of which share primary symptoms with CJD) have dramatically risen over the past 20 years. So no-one knows for sure the extent that "New Variant" CJD has become endemic in the population, solely because no-one cares to look! If we are to continue to safely eat Cows and Sheep, then the Cows and Sheep must be allowed a more a natural diet. Grass or cereal based would be ideal. Diet based around dead, sick animals, must be off the menu. Shouldn't really need fucking saying, should it? Even worse, BSE/CJD is caused by self-replicating proteins called "prions". Since they are just proteins and not living organisms like bacteria, or pseudo-living like viruses, they cannot be sterilized in the normal ways. Cooking meat is not enough to get rid of it. The only way to totally get rid of it is to burn it to ash. Like you said, don't grind up old/sick farm animals and feed it to other farm animals and this would become a non-issue. The unsterilizable nature of prions also serves to stifle research into prion diseases as any implement, tool, operating theater or laboratory that has been used for research on prions becomes useless for any other medical purpose that would expose humans to the prions. |
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Post by MOLEY on Apr 15, 2012 17:01:28 GMT -5
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Post by philipkduck on Apr 15, 2012 17:05:00 GMT -5
Too many WE. Soylent Green. Hell yes. They'll eat the poor if they have to -0 and if they think they can get away with it. Half the world get most of their protein from insects. Spiders and cockroaches, And yes rats. Squirrels. Other inconsiderable options to most in our society. The white man's burden will be that he is too squeamish to eat what the goddess gave him to survive when Monsanto own all the patents to the food crops and there are no more deer on the hillsides to shoot or salmon in the rivers to angle for. They will demand meat -The kind of meat they can kid they recognise and they'll be sold a meat product. That may well turn out to be Aunty Mavis - but hell what we don't know right? The risk of being forced into cannibalism by a duplicitous and immoral corporation is so much more appealing to most of us that the notion of eating a spider. I've had spiders. In Thailand they're a bit of a mountain local delicacy. They're not half bad. So now it's not WE, it's THEY. Right on sister. TOO MANY PEOPLE - and no amount of eating spiders will do anything about that. |
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Post by StormInateacup on Apr 15, 2012 18:46:07 GMT -5
I dunno - go tell that to 100,000,000 Indonesians - 70,000,000 Thais. 2 billion Chinese. And sure as shit there's plenty of spiders most places. Certainly here.  And yes there are too many people...If it were up to me birth control classes would be mandatory world wide. And birth control free. Funny China tries to limit their birth rate and we call them human rights abusers. but that's another topic.....I'll be boring and bleeding heart about that one day too I expect. But birth control is not taught..it is not handed out to those who most need it. Shame but it is not. So we need to find ways to think about feeding them all. Because you can live in all the isolated villages in the hills you want to and not look at the madding crowds...but the madding crowds will still be there....And they will still be hungry. And if giving a fuck about that makes me a dull conversationalist, I guess I will have to live with that too.  |
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Post by philipkduck on Apr 16, 2012 13:05:07 GMT -5
Because you can live in all the isolated villages in the hills you want to and not look at the madding crowds...but the madding crowds will still be there....And they will still be hungry. I know i should just ignore you but i can't. i really take exception to that remark. So where would you permit me live then? Where would be right-on enough for you ? I have had a shit life, I haven't got very long left and i deserve some peace. A single migrating bird, every tree, every lamb being born right now means more to me than all the starving millions in the world. They are not my responsibility. I will not feel guilty about them. I have been made to feel guilty by experts for 63 years and I have had enough. |
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Post by Jenne on Apr 24, 2012 8:42:02 GMT -5
If we all ett only the meat we could catch, shoot, trap or slaughter ourselves the whole planet would be better off. The poor fecking animals most certainly would be. Ah, WE - my least favourite word. the preachy self-righteous we. The trouble is with we is there are far too many of we, and most of we live in cities where we cannot play noble savage.  ...though I'm guilty of the "we" as well. But all points here are valid--great discussion, though the subject turns my stomach a wee bit. And I admit to a weakness that would neither allow vegetarianism nor the ability to slaughter my own meat...other than fish, probably. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2012 10:11:45 GMT -5
At some point there is going to have to be a limit on how many children any one woman can have. It's not pretty, it's not nice and it's certainly unfair, however, it is either that or you randomly sterilise every other child born.
This planet cannot continue to support the life that is currently on it and we are adding thousands every day. Like Hatter said earlier, this didn't used to be an issue because people were dying younger. Modern medicine has changed that. People are living longer and surviving more. Accidents that were once fatal are now recoverable. Where once premie babies rarely survived, now they do.
We've upset the balance and for every good it does for us, there are also bad side effects as well.
If we do not establish now alternative food sources, change our eating habits drastically, contain population growth, expand up instead of out, we will have killed this planet within our children's children's lifetime.
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