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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2012 11:28:52 GMT -5
I think anyone who has not been convicted of a felony involving a firearm or violence should be allowed to own a handgun or rifle.
I agree there is no need for Joe Citizen to have an automatic or semi automatic firearm. I really don't think law enforcement should have them either.
I don't think shooting someone is the way to break up a potential riot, it would seem that shooting into the crowd would just cause more panic. Then again, I've been in a situation like that once and at the time I would have shot plenty of people if given the opportunity to just get the fuck out of the rampaging crowd, so who is to say.
We can all get on our soap box, but the truth is, there really aren't a lot of options in dealing with a huge crowd of people who are being violent.
You can't really tear gas them out in the open. The bean bags and plugs can be damn near as dangerous. And I highly doubt "please calm down" will work. Things get out of control.
Do you fight violence with violence? Well it has proven to work, I mean isn't that what war is, fighting one group's violence with our own?
If the group is not violent, or have already been subdued, then using violence then is wrong. If they are rampaging and or looting or vandalising or hurting innocent bystanders, then my thinking is you do what you have to do.
Until you've been in the situation, you can't really say. Trust me, it's pure terror and the last thing you are worried about is the police shooting the people instigating the whole thing.
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Post by BadBeast on Jun 8, 2012 11:41:42 GMT -5
No, I live in Canada. And yes I support banning some types of fire arms, hand guns, semi auto and fully auto rifles. Basically anything that would not be considered appropriate for hunting deer or rabbits. A permit allows local authorities to prepare a designated area in a way that will minimize the disruption of commerce and ensure the peace is maintained. We've had many unauthorized protests up here and they have been allowed to proceed, as long as they stay non violent and without property damage. When that changes, arrests are made. Kent State was not a trained event. It was inexperienced national guardsmen going GI Joe and reacting from fear of being overwhelmed. I've read a number of the transcripts from that event. However if we look at say the Vancouver hockey riot, we had a small group of Black Bloc agitators working up the crowd and intentionally starting violence and damage. Those would be the targets and I would have no problem pulling the trigger. There is a big difference between peaceful civil disobedience and a riot. Here in the UK, it was only through rioting that anything got changed in the 1980's. It brought attention to the appallingly racist Police Force and their disgusting treatment of the striking Miners, and the abuse of New Age Travellers by the Thames Valley Police. Our Victorian Prison system (4 in a cell, 23 hours a day, with one bucket to shit in) only got overhauled when Prison after Prison erupted in riots back in the 80's. These days, even peaceful Civil disobedience gets responded to with Militarised Police Forces mobilising their shock troops every time (Just in case someone breaks a Bank's window) I spent the summer of 1985 fighting pitched battles with the Police all across South West England, and even then, the Police took no notice of "Procedure", hiding their ID Tags before dragging women with babies in their arms through broken coach windows, then clubbing them into pulp. Sometimes Civil disobedience just doesn't cut it. eta: I seem to remember something from my History lessons at school (I know) about some colony or other using armed resistance against their Lawful King, and I think they still crow about that every year in early July.
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Post by watershield on Jun 8, 2012 11:42:39 GMT -5
When you shoot at a person you always shoot to kill. Even a rubber bullit is aimed at center of mass.
The student protests that are happening in Quebec, by and large have been tame. Yes some damage has been done, but for the most part that was random acts of stupidity. But when you have some guy with a bull horn working the crowd and actually calling for destruction of property and directing attacks,(as we had in Vancouver) maybe even throwing the first brick through a store front, that's when it become organized inciting a riot.
In the 70's we were trained to deal with riot control. We had "capture teams" that would first attempt to take out the leaders by penetrating the crowd to take control of them physically. If that failed due to either crowd pressure or they fled, the roof top spotters might be ordered to shoot. The spotters were snipers and the only people with live rounds by the way.
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Post by BadBeast on Jun 8, 2012 11:50:40 GMT -5
People only tend to congregate in large numbers to protest, when they have a legitimate issue that other avenues have failed to resolve.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2012 12:22:28 GMT -5
Sometimes, sometimes they just get out of control in overly emotional situations. Soccer game field riots. The Rodney King riots in LA.
I was there for some of that and let me tell you, most of the people looting and bashing people in the head with bats had no idea the real reason behind the violence.
I think when it gets to the point that innocent business owners are having damage done to their places of business or being robbed just because of where their store is located then something needs to be done.
That up and coming rebal country that thumbed their noses at their "rightul king" (I lol'd btw) has not existed in decades. We killed those rebels and made a mockery of their sacrifice which we celebrate every time we step into the voting polls.
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Post by BadBeast on Jun 8, 2012 13:19:50 GMT -5
Yeah, I got you thee Mate. One man's seditionist is another man's "Founding Father".
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Post by BadBeast on Jun 8, 2012 13:26:09 GMT -5
And you Yanks haven't really "got" Football Hooliganism. Over here, it's a cultural tradition, going back as far as the birth of the game.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2012 13:33:34 GMT -5
And you Yanks haven't really "got" Football Hooliganism. Over here, it's a cultural tradition, going back as far as the birth of the game. So that's what is missing in American football, well besides everything else.....
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Post by BadBeast on Jun 8, 2012 13:37:58 GMT -5
It's just a bit of good natured fisticuffs.
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Post by watershield on Jun 8, 2012 23:52:44 GMT -5
People only tend to congregate in large numbers to protest, when they have a legitimate issue that other avenues have failed to resolve. Not always. Take our protests going on in Quebec. The average university fee across the country is about $6,000 a year. In Quebec it's only $2500. The provincial government can not afford to continue to subsidize it and wants to increase the fee by about $300 a year for the next three years. So at the end it will cost $4300 for one year of university. Still the cheapest in Canada and I dare say most places around the world. The students say they can't afford that and have refused to attend classes for the past three months. Marches in the streets nightly. There has been property damage and a number of arrest have been made. I honestly think that this protest is more about the protest than it is about any issue. The new fad.
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