Scooby Doo & Uktena

[dracojesi]

Scooby Doo skit in Tsalagi (Cherokee)
Uktena is a creature from Tsalagi mythos, a winged-serpent with antlers and potent medicine stone as a crest.

[Deleted]

Are these your children? I thought at first glance that was my daughter frm the back LOL

[dracojesi]

Oh no, I'm not a father... came close once though.

Well, in the clan system everyone your fathers age is an uncle or aunt. Same with your mother, and actually it's her brother who is responsible for the male children learning the ways of the clan; not the father. You inherit your mothers clan. Though while this is expected of your clan the sentiment can be found between clans- especially now that the traditional ways aren't as accepted as they used to be.

So I suppose I'd be very protective of them. I don't know them (the kids) but have talked to Ed before.

[The Mad Hatter]

Yes, the Old Ways are dying, sadly.

Continued colonialism and removal programs combined with terrible poverty on many reservations have even seen a decline in Native languages.

We are being taught by an Apache Medicine Woman.

[Deleted]

Yeah, my mom is all Irish, I get my NDN from Dad and it was his mother who taught me and I've in turn taught the kids.

I'm fighting right now for my youngest's card. They issued the boys without blinking an eye when they were born but they are fighting me on my daughter's. It may be that I waited to register her or I pissed someone off.

[dracojesi]

Jul 1, 2013 15:44:30 GMT -5 The Mad Hatter said:

Yes, the Old Ways are dying, sadly.

Continued colonialism and removal programs combined with terrible poverty on many reservations have even seen a decline in Native languages.

We are being taught by an Apache Medicine Woman.

It's a miracle that the languages that are still around haven't died out. It's even more amazing that the medicine is still around to any degree. You have to know the language to do the medicine and the boarding schools they used to have, where they took the children away and would beat them if they spoke their native tongue. Allot of people don't know that native ceremonials were illegal until sometime in the seventies. At least for the Cherokee; we had to gather in secret. Before that much of it only survived because of the Kituwah society.

Today, there's allot of shame, confusion of identity and pressure not to get involved in such things. This runs the gamut, from teens being ashamed to speak the language outside of the language immersion schools. Some of them wont talk to you in it, even if they know it because they are embarrassed by it, or otherwise keep that part of their life hidden.

Not all Cherokee today embrace the medicine either and some see the language as just as bad and want nothing to do with it. That's more on the extreme side. Many feel it's important to know the language but see the medicine as evil- that's the work of colonialism.

I'm not sure what the numbers are now but last I talked to other Cherokee about them they weren't good. out of 300,000 only 5,000 practiced medicine. Some might have bits and pieces left in their family but aren't so aware of it actively- if you know what I mean, and its a spectrum. Anyway out of that 5,000 fewer still, around 1,000 practice without feeling they have to justify themselves to Christian sentiment. Of course very few of these are story tellers or ceremonial leaders.

We've got Cherokee preaching that the ways of their ancestors are of the devil.

So it's a struggle, keeping these things alive but we have strong leaders willing to commit themselves to it. One of our strengths is that we can adapt and this has historically always been so. The Cherokee have always been able to learn what they can from their oppressors and hold their own. That's a strength of ours, and I'd generally like to think we are able to do so without forgetting who we are- because in so many instances where people have forgotten their roots its because it was beaten and scared out of them.

It's not easy finding a place in modern times, the old way of life is so different from the way things are done now. Even on the reservations and nations, we've had to change the way we govern just to be recognized by the U.S. - not that this works all that well...

But we know how things used to be and try to maintain that with each-other.

I don't know about the Apache but I know the Cherokee language can be said to be half dead- in a way. three of the six original dialects are said to be gone. As for how many words and such are left compared to how many there were... I don't know, not sure if anyone does but there must have been allot that didn't make it. This doesn't include words that are, vague in their meaning either.

One thing I wish we knew more about was the ceremonial wear of various kinds of medicine men, and of the Ani-Kutani. Allot of that has been lost. Though there are, I've seen certain bits of it still left that aren't really documented anywhere but have survived in certain families in one form or another.

[The Mad Hatter]

I am part Cherokee. I grew up in Georgia in the 50's and 60's so to avoid prejudice I was raised white. Granny had to hide or destroy any evidence of our heritage, and its just been the last few years that I have been able to connect with other Natives and embrace my heritage.

I may not have been adopted out, but I still sometimes feel like a split feather.

[dracojesi]

*nods* So then you know all too well. A split feather, that really sums it up doesn't it? .... never fitting in but expecting to, and struggling with dual-heritage.. esp. knowing, in my case that much was inherited from my father which makes clan placement complicated.

I'm the only one in my family who still speaks the language, knows of medicine and stories. Though my cousin is interested and I have been teaching my step-sister the language. My father does take pride in our heritage and as explored it from a historical angle. He's to critical in thought though to really connect to the spiritual aspects of it, esp. in any kind of mystical way. Well it does mean something to him but I'm sure you get what I mean.

His father, he certainly has Cherokee values. I would say of everyone else in my family he is the least colonized.... but he doesn't speak the language nor does he know the stories or anything like that.

My grandmother on my mothers side, well my grandmothers second husaband- we weren't related but you wouldn't have known. He was native, and very much in touch with his roots... and his pipe.

I did not have an uncle on that side, and any extended uncles were never around. My moms sister was married for a time, but her husband had nothing to pass down but a love of star trek; and he wasn't always around for family gatherings.

So i didn't have an uncle to teach me these things, and my father- he would have been perhaps the one to do it- if he had known that but he had his own stuff to work through. His father, I learned allot from him to , but I only saw him on certain holidays at that point in my life. My Father does have a brother, but his Christian wife would never allow him to look into such things.

My grandfather on my moms side- he taught me- mostly the worldview and ways of thinking more so than the names of things that were tribal specific, at least from what I can remember. He also taught he about planting crop by sign (astrological) - because see my family, being from Appalachia and all was not oblivious to "old world" teachings...

I dont know the extant of what he knew. He passed away before he got the chance to teach me certain things. All I know for certain is that I don't have a complete picture of him. Interestingly enough, I do know that many of his friends were Masons (and I do know there is some of that in the family to) but to my knowledge he was not. He was well respected and trusted but he had his own way.

After he had passed I had been exposed to Astrology, in the sense of the more complicated stuff that leads one to practicing Ceremonial Magick. I would say that he taught me the signs as far as having a garden but I'm not sure I can say that's all he taught me. As I read about these things I found many of the things he had taught me.... and it always makes me wonder.

In any case I have studied the occult ever since and now I have reconnected with other Cherokee and started to bring those ways back into the family. The medicine chief I talk to is often surprised at just how readily I am able to understand him but he surprised me as well... he teaches me the told Cherokee ways and I show him how they can be path-worked using the techniques of "old world" Occultism... so we kind of teach each-other what we know of the mysteries.

My path has come full-circle in that regard. I had to venture from home not just to come back to it but to save it.

Jul 1, 2013 15:53:47 GMT -5 @khara said:

Yeah, my mom is all Irish, I get my NDN from Dad and it was his mother who taught me and I've in turn taught the kids.

I'm fighting right now for my youngest's card. They issued the boys without blinking an eye when they were born but they are fighting me on my daughter's. It may be that I waited to register her or I pissed someone off.

Same here, well i have both Cherokee and Irish both sides, though one might be a bit more Germanic than Irish.... but my dads side is predominantly native and my moms side predominantly Irish.

Does your father have a sister? Depending on the tribe, but certainly not an uncommon thing- she would have been the one to teach you. If he does, might get to know her a little better

Usually if there is no biological aunt, someone else of that clan would take their role; but sometimes- away from larger community it falls to an older female of the family.

As for the card some tribes go by blood quantum but the Cherokee go by just having an ancestor on the Dawes Rolls. There should be no reason to deny her if his ancestor was through you. They might as well claim you aren't her mother. :/

[The Mad Hatter]

I think you touched on the most important aspect. It is how we think that defines, not a blood quantum established by a white government. I am 1/4 by blood, but full Native in thought.

It is how we walk the Earth Mother and what is in our hearts. As a warrior, it is my sacred duty to protect the women, children, elders and the Mother. It is my duty to have respect for all living things and to know that we are all related.

[dracojesi]

Exactly, I've had people say to me that they are part Cherokee but when you start to talk to them about the traditions they aren't interested. You got to ask what it means to them because if it doesn't mean anything for them then those ways aren't for them.

That's how it goes no matter how much blood you have. That's what the elders say to; that if they tell you something and you aren't hearing them.. then you aren't ready to receive it. Maybe it's not for you but for someone else. Maybe you'll be more receptive to different medicine...

They wont be around forever, you have to learn it... and if you can't it's not for you to be the keeper of you know? And you had to remember back then because you couldn't just write everything down and if you did that might look suspicious. You had to to know it, to internalize it. It's said the healers knew 600 or so herbs all by memory. It was survival. the survival of the culture is the same way- though granted I think we are starting to realize more and more so that some things should be written down. The point is, you have to become the embodiment of that wisdom. It's a process though of course; but you have to stay the course.

You got to tell them that learning isn't easy and if they want to learn their going to have to do. I wont make a stave for someone but I'll teach them how. They have to do it though. I need to know they can do it when I'm no longer around. That goes for anything.

But once they've learned, it's theirs. Tradition is important to; it gives much needed foundation. If I tell them to do something a certain way, have them learn how to do the work- it may not be easy but when they are done it will be theirs.

If you just give them something, they may think it is theirs and in a way it might be but they wont understand it. They wont have any power to use it.

[Deleted]

My parents have both passed and I have nothing to do with either of their families. Not that my father's sister would know anything anyway, she chose to live in the city with our aunt rather than on the rez with her family.