|
Post by StormInateacup on Apr 21, 2012 6:28:46 GMT -5
Student debt in the US and other developed countries seems to being used as a tool to repress dissidence and activism on campuses. Kids who are facing a massive red column in their personal accounts book are not keen to wile away many hours of their school life on lawns listening to protest speakers. They are not likely to risk running afoul of authorities who may one day soon be prospective employers when they have the law, sociology or commerce degree they are paying through the nose for.
Even though other consumer debt-bombs have done more damage to the economy per se student debt is producing significant social and economic distortions. One that is so useful to the authority structure that it seems certain that they will keep this type of bondage in place.
Heavy debt loads pressure young people into making conservative choices. If you carry a lot in the way of student loans, you have to worry about employability. That doesn’t simply push graduates into bigger ticket (hence more conventional) career choices; more important, it makes them far less likely to step out of line. In particular, an arrest record, which is often a by product of protesting, is an automatic out with a lot of employers.
But the level of student debt, now estimated at over $1 trillion outstanding, is having an impact on spending too. First time home buying is running below the level expected given new household formation, and a big culprit is student debt loads, since many young people are too leveraged to take on a decent-sized mortgage on top of their existing obligations. In addition, the 25 to 39 year old cohort is the top target of advertisers, but the more debt service they have, the less they can buy in the way of goodies.
So student debt is also a massive barrier to economic recovery. Those people who in the past have been most likely to be travelling, eating out and buying consumables are now pulling their belts tighter than ever before.
As the US system is so different from the ones operating in the UK and here in Aus I was wondering if you'd all be able to share with us what your experience of educational debt financing been and how its impacted your life and the decisions you make regarding any further study.. ..and how your kids will experience University life in ways which are different from your own time in institutions of higher learning.
Oh yeah and have a little go on this: Julian Cope:A promo for the documentary Revolution Blues: A travelling musical protest event he staged in Britain.
|
|
|
Post by admin on Apr 21, 2012 9:33:17 GMT -5
Very interesting read, nice take on the debt load.
|
|
|
Post by admin on Apr 21, 2012 11:48:44 GMT -5
At a time when American employers are complaining they can't find enough highly-skilled and well-educated workers, a political battle is shaping up over the looming rise in the cost of student loans. The Obama administration Friday kicked off a push to delay a scheduled increase in the interest rate charged on so-called Stafford loans for college. But the program is just one of many that face pressure from Republicans who say they are too costly for taxpayers. The president will be taking the issue on the road next week in speeches on college campuses in North Carolina, Colorado and Iowa, hoping to appeal to debt-burdened, college-aged voters who are struggling with a record pile of debt to pay for the relentless rise in the cost of a degree. "At a time when Americans owe more on student loans than [on] credit cards, President Obama believes we must reward hard work and responsibility by keeping interest rates on student loans low so more Americans get a fair shot at an affordable college education, the skills they need to find a good job and a clear path to middle class," the White House said. economywatch.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/20/11309106-obama-gop-square-off-on-student-loans?lite
|
|
jeankeegs
Student Of Verbosity(Lvl 1-2)
It seemed like a good idea at the time, darling...
Posts: 26
|
Post by jeankeegs on Apr 21, 2012 12:39:02 GMT -5
While I'm all for relieving the burden faced by student-loan-holders, I've got to point out that lowering the interest rate on a loan that can only get you a maximum of $7500 a year as an independent undergraduate in a world in which the average undergraduate tuition and fees at a 4 year accredited university (public or private) is over $20,000 is not going to help much in the "fair shot at an affordable college education."
My parents didn't save anything for my college - my father has this vague, idealistic notion that college would mean more to us if we paid for it ourselves (his college was paid for, and he majored in drinking), and my mother is a cheapskate who thinks that it's "easy" to win free rides at any school, and that the fact that none of us got one is because we didn't work hard enough. Neither one was any help when it came to the whole college process. At first, I went to New York University, an expensive private school, and my ability to pay was based on two loans I was approved for...but Reagan cancelled one of the programs and I ended up owing the school about 5000 bucks. I couldn't go back until it was paid, so I spent three years or so paying them back at $10-$25 a week. When I finally got them off my back, I went to a very good state university as an in-state, non-resident student...my student loan gave me $2500 a year, which covered one semester of tuition and fees, with some left over for books and living expenses, and I got a grant of the same amount for the other semester. I lived off-campus and still had to work full-time while I was in school, and I left owing about $12,000 in loans. They give you 10 years to pay it back, but my finances - and life - imploded during that time, and the ex, while telling me he was keeping up with all the bills, let my student loan go nearly to default...they ended up garnishing my wages to pay it off.
I'm fucking petrified of the offspring's college expenses. I'm a single mom who doesn't own a home, but I make over $100K a year (as a contractor - no security in that, and no pension) so I won't qualify for financial aid. My financial solidity is recent - within the last few years, so I've got very little savings. My ex has pretty much never paid child support and is such a douchebag that he's more likely to take money from the offspring than to give him any. My idiot kid, whose shitty grades do not in any way reflect his intelligence but more accurately reflect his arrogant teenaged idea that the world shouldn't bore him and he shouldn't have to do things that don't make him blitheringly happy, wants to go to school in London, partially because he wants to live a more interesting life than his contemporaries, and partially because he has a long-standing crush on a girl he met through tumblr and he wants to be with her, so that's going to cost the earth even if he gets a place.
It keeps me up at night, I can tell you.
My beloved, who always does the right thing at the right time, was a regular saver for his son's education, has retirement savings and a house, and makes a very good salary. His son was a model student in high school, in all kinds of science, math, and engineering clubs, participated in the Model UN, was active in the Asian Students Association, and the International Students Association, and got phenomenal grades throughout high school. He won a number of small scholarships, and while he didn't get into his first choice universities, he now studies engineering at Purdue, which is a good private university and a really good program. Purdue gave him a number of relatively small grants to attend. Even so, with all of that going for him, I think my beloved pays $12,000 a semester, although that might be per year.
It's brutal out there.
|
|
|
Post by admin on Apr 21, 2012 12:52:42 GMT -5
It really is out of control, isn't it? Yet another chasm in the class war. Even tech/trade schools are rising in costs for blue collar jobs after graduation.
This is the kind of thing that is turning me more socialist every day.
|
|
|
Post by Tofu DeBeast on Apr 21, 2012 12:55:27 GMT -5
It really is out of control, isn't it? Yet another chasm in the class war. Even tech/trade schools are rising in costs for blue collar jobs after graduation. This is the kind of thing that is turning me more socialist every day. Yes.... that and health insurance.
|
|
|
Post by StormInateacup on Apr 21, 2012 12:56:10 GMT -5
They need fewer and fewer workers in every industry as technology lightens the human work load. So they are rationing education through costing us out of the market. Doctors sons and daughters can afford to aspire to medicine as a career no matter how so-so they may be, but the brilliant child of a brick layer now has to think about how far in debt a Bachelor of Med will get them and make other choices.
The class war is alive and well...and the cunts at the top seem to be winning once more.
|
|
|
Post by admin on Apr 21, 2012 12:59:21 GMT -5
A forecast by the Georgetown University Center on Education and the Workforce predicts that by 2018, 63 percent of all jobs will require at least some postsecondary education. That means employers will need to find 22 million new workers with postsecondary degrees. But the report's authors estimate that, at the current pace of college completion rates, the U.S. labor force will fall short by three million workers. To fill the gap, an additional 300,000 students would have to complee college graduates every year between now and 2018.
|
|
|
Post by admin on Apr 21, 2012 13:03:21 GMT -5
It really is out of control, isn't it? Yet another chasm in the class war. Even tech/trade schools are rising in costs for blue collar jobs after graduation. This is the kind of thing that is turning me more socialist every day. Yes.... that and health insurance. Exactly.
|
|
|
Post by StormInateacup on Apr 21, 2012 13:04:08 GMT -5
Our HECS scheme (Higher Education Contribution Scheme) has deterred so many young Australians from doing the expensive science based degrees that we are now begging overseas doctors and engineers to come here....it makes no sense at all.
They spend a fortune on these overseas doctors. If they agree to work in a rural area they can get a house, a car, moving expenses....massive salaries, locums paid for so they get a holiday - but they won't put that money toward scholarships for young Australians to do the degrees based on a promise to work 3-10 years in a remote area.
**facepalm**
|
|
|
Post by Tofu DeBeast on Apr 21, 2012 13:04:38 GMT -5
They need fewer and fewer workers in every industry as technology lightens the human work load. So they are rationing education through costing us out of the market. Doctors sons and daughters can afford to aspire to medicine as a career no matter how so-so they may be, but the brilliant child of a brick layer now has to think about how far in debt a Bachelor of Med will get them and make other choices. The class war is alive and well...and the cunts at the top seem to be winning once more. I hear a lot in the US people saying stuff like "We don't want to start a class war" whenever someone brings up increasing that tax rate on the rich or whatnot. Well, there is a class war happening whether we want to admit it or not. Pretending it isn't there isn't going to fix problems like this. I'm not advocating riots in the street or French revolution style terror or anything like that; just can't we talk about policy changes that could leveling the playing field without being labelled a socialist commie that wants to destroy the free market? I swear we are still suffering from the cold war....
|
|
|
Post by StormInateacup on Apr 21, 2012 13:07:23 GMT -5
They need fewer and fewer workers in every industry as technology lightens the human work load. So they are rationing education through costing us out of the market. Doctors sons and daughters can afford to aspire to medicine as a career no matter how so-so they may be, but the brilliant child of a brick layer now has to think about how far in debt a Bachelor of Med will get them and make other choices. The class war is alive and well...and the cunts at the top seem to be winning once more. I hear a lot in the US people saying stuff like "We don't want to start a class war" whenever someone brings up increasing that tax rate on the rich or whatnot. Well, there is a class war happening whether we want to admit it or not. Pretending it isn't there isn't going to fix problems like this. I'm not advocating riots in the street or French revolution style terror or anything like that; just can't we talk about policy changes that could leveling the playing field without being labelled a socialist commie that wants to destroy the free market? I swear we are still suffering from the cold war.... and:
|
|
jeankeegs
Student Of Verbosity(Lvl 1-2)
It seemed like a good idea at the time, darling...
Posts: 26
|
Post by jeankeegs on Apr 21, 2012 13:14:38 GMT -5
We are absolutely still suffering from the cold war, darling...look at Allan West claiming that the members of the Congressional Progressive Caucus are all "communists." Look how hard the Fox Newsers are riding that "Obama is a socialist" pony to try to discredit him. All you have to do in this country is say the words communist or socialist and a reliably and pathetically substantial section of the population - my own mother included - freaks out and starts thinking "traitors!" I've lost track of the number of times I've gotten arguments from people when I point out that it's unconstitutional to try to ban a particular political ideology, and that the people who want to ban ideas represent more of a threat to democracy than the folks who think sharing would be pretty.
|
|
|
Post by Tofu DeBeast on Apr 21, 2012 13:19:36 GMT -5
A forecast by the Georgetown University Center on Education and the Workforce predicts that by 2018, 63 percent of all jobs will require at least some postsecondary education. That means employers will need to find 22 million new workers with postsecondary degrees. But the report's authors estimate that, at the current pace of college completion rates, the U.S. labor force will fall short by three million workers. To fill the gap, an additional 300,000 students would have to complee college graduates every year between now and 2018. Or we could do what the high tech industry is already doing, and import well-educated workers from places like India. Upping the limit on H1-B visas is a lot easier than finding funding for tuition. It's not a real solution of course, but it is a lot more politically feasible.
|
|
|
Post by StormInateacup on Apr 21, 2012 13:23:27 GMT -5
We are absolutely still suffering from the cold war, darling...look at Allan West claiming that the members of the Congressional Progressive Caucus are all "communists." Look how hard the Fox Newsers are riding that "Obama is a socialist" pony to try to discredit him. All you have to do in this country is say the words communist or socialist and a reliably and pathetically substantial section of the population - my own mother included - freaks out and starts thinking "traitors!" I've lost track of the number of times I've gotten arguments from people when I point out that it's unconstitutional to try to ban a particular political ideology, and that the people who want to ban ideas represent more of a threat to democracy than the folks who think sharing would be pretty. if you ever want a facepalming belly laugh go to Yahoo Politics and ask: "Can you define Socialism for me and give examples of political initiatives in the US which could be called Socialist" The discordians have a word "horror-mirth" which precisely describes the results of doing that.
|
|