AHO!

[User]

Oct 15, 2012 2:21:23 GMT -5 NiNjA said:

Sesame street taught you to count and spell too, right?

I can count to R.

[NiNjA]

That's what's up.

[firesong]

How do y'all feel about what Arvol Looking Horse has said about sharing native rituals and practices? I have the greatest respect for him, and I understand where he's coming from. I've also talked to other NDNs, who said they feel sharing is appropriate, as did Rolling Thunder, who lived with the Western Shoshone. He spoke of a prophecy of a time when the sons and daughters of the white man would grow their hair, don leather and turquoise, and begin to learn and participate in native rituals and beliefs.

While I've participated in sweat lodges and tobacco ceremonies, I've also seen both of those abused for commercial purposes...

Do you feel that those of use who are respectful should be able to participate?

Thanx!

[NiNjA]

Hmm, I'd like to participate, for the experience and understanding... But I'm all white girl. :/

[The Mad Hatter]

I think if you are respectful then you may be invited in. Is it for outsiders to say whether or not a People should share their way of life with strangers?

[NiNjA]

No, I don't suppose. I guess it depends on the group. There are groups who feel that their beliefs and practices are sacred, and to fully understand or participate it might be very important to the group that the participant be respectful and maybe even assessed before invited in. Then you have groups that do not invite anyone not directly related into the practices. I guess it's the group's choice.

[The Mad Hatter]

One has a far better chance to be invited to a Native Ceremony as a non-member than one has to be invited inside an LDS Temple as a non-member.

[BadBeast]

I've just finished reading a comic centred on Native American mythology. Coyote reluctantly goes out from the Lodge between the Worlds, where the other power beings have woken him from his sleep, to find White Buffalo Woman, who is missing. They think maybe White Buffalo Woman is lost in the World, or trapped in her disguise.

They woke Coyote up, because they could hear someone in the World, drumming the ghostdance, and they think White Buffalo Woman must have taught whoever it is the Sacred beats. Coyote being the wisest of them all, (and the most prone to flattery) is persuaded to go out and see what the score is.

Really good comic, but it's written by an Englishman. Here's a link to the first issue, (if anyone's interested) I uploaded it to my Mediafire account to see if anyone thought it a worthy endeavor, in light of the "sharing of wisdom" discussion this thread seems to have taken.It;s called "Ghostdancing" .
Here's a link to the first issue..
www.mediafire.com/myfiles.php#08mcgxptzb131

It's readable at mediafire without having to download it, but it's probably easier to just download the folder and read it in windows preview. The site allows file downloading, but only one per person I think. Anyway, see what you think. It's only about 15 minutes of your life, but I'd be interested in what people think of it.

[The Mad Hatter]

Animal stories vary wildly between different Native Nations. In one a crow or an owl can be a good omen and both or one can be a bad omen in another.

www.wolflodge.org/wolflodge/voices/wbcwmn.htm

White Buffalo Calf Woman is very Sacred.

[The Mad Hatter]

[BadBeast]

I just spent a while reading some big chunks of that Wolflodge manifesto, (especially "The People") and what struck me in particular was although it's very distinctly Native American, and beautifully defines a whole cultural paradigm, it isn't insular, or claiming to be a thing that is only for the red man.

Even after the last 300 odd years of having to put up with the shit that came along with the white man, it still holds steadfastly to the ideal that "All Men are Brothers". Not in a dogmatic way, as if it has been taught by "Holy Men", and drummed into successive generations to be recited back in a meaningless catechism, like the hand wringing piousness Christianity tends to produce in it's more narrow forms, but because it's the simple fucking truth.

There's no "Our way is the best way because . . . . ", or "We are the chosen favoured ones . . . " because truth can't be subverted like that and still maintain it's validity. It's not a coin that can be bartered, sold, spent or hidden away. It can't be diluted and peddled out to the ignorant, it's still as valid and strong as it was before the white man set foot in America.

More so, really, because in spite of all the tribulations it's been subjected to over the years, it still rings out with a clarity that can't be denied. There's no false pride here, or recrimination for past wrongs, just a steadfast, selfless truthfulness that still rises above all the bullshit.

Although it's rich with mythology, the myths are fundamentally no different from any other Shamanic tradition, the only difference being that the Native American seems to have woven his whole cultural and spiritual existence around these truths, and rather than fading into pockets of culturally isolated obscurity or redundant historical texts, they have grown stronger and are even more relevant today, and that's one big pair of fucking boots to be wearing.

I like the concept of "Wakan", I can't think of a single English word that comes close to what it means, and that's even assuming I understand it correctly. There's probably something old and Hebraic that gets close though.
I can see many common spiritual concepts in Western traditions, especially in Qabala and Hermeticism, but where they are (by necessity, considering the way the big three are always baying for the blood of heretics) couched in allegory and mysticism, the Native American way seems to have been kept unambiguous, simple, and accessible to anyone with open eyes and hearts.

And it's uncommonly decent of you to to rise above past crimes perpetuated on you, and work so hard to make sure it's disseminated through the Six Nations, to whoever has eyes to see, really. I could certainly understand it if you'd adopted a "fuck you, you split tongued, palefaced desecrators" attitude, but the more I understand the Native American "Wakan" (love that word) the more I see that that attitude is antithesis to being able to . . . well, to lay down the fucking truth like that, in front of people who might still consider you as "the enemy".

Telling the truth like that is rarely conducive to staying alive, and even Christianity is full of Martyrs who wouldn't fucking shut up, when they could have just capitulated. In fact, at times, I think the early Christian Martyrs are the only reason Christianity kept any spiritual integrity at all.

But here we all are, awaiting the approaching apocalypse / transition / rapture / awakening, or whatever we're most comfortable believing, all in fairly similar boats. We might even resort to chucking each other over the side here and there, but only a fucking idiot would get a hammer, and start knocking holes in the bottom.

Unfortunately, there are still plenty of fucking idiots around. There's going to come a day when there's nowhere left for the wicked man to hide, so it's best look sharp, and wise up people, innit?

[The Mad Hatter]

BB, I just love it when you show your incredible talent to break things down to their basic level. You are one of the few who can understand the depth of the simple statement; "We are all One".

[StormInateacup]

My Grandmother was of the Warradjiri people of Central Western NSW and so my cultural ancestry is Warradjiri (and Irish French Chinese....I'm a mutt.)

I live now in Awabakal country on the NSW Central /North coast and was many years ago adopted by one of the community elders (now dead and in line with her belief system I should not say her full name. We called her Mum Grace.)

In Aboriginal cultures anyone adopted by an elder is a full member of that tribe and has the same obligations to and rights within those lands and communities as anyone born into them. It really is a "the content of your heart and not the colour of your skin." deal.

The Awabakal people are deeply committed to sharing many cultural practices, especially through school programmes. They have been very active in developing Indigenous Studies programmes with the NSW Dept of School education. At first those programmes were restricted by the Dept to children who identified as having indigenous ancestry, but through long campaigning, it has just recently been decreed that all primary school children in NSW should take part in Indigenous Studies courses as part of the curriculum and that those studies ought to be integrated into a wide range of study areas: Literature, History, Geography and Social Studies (Or HISE as it's called by the Dept.)

These studies include visits by dance troupes, drama groups, presentations and talks by elders and now formalised lessons with in-house texts and resources. Unlike the NA experience, where much of the native cultures were preserved, the long history of family separation in Australia has meant that there are no Aboriginal languages which remain in tact and outside of the Northern territory few communities which have been able to keep hold of a full complement of their cultural and spiritual practices, so what is happening here is more along the lines of a work of reconstruction.

But very much like the NA peoples, it is an inclusive and generous tradition. There are certain rituals and secrets which are retained for sharing only with the fully initiated, but as I said, anyone willing to devote the time and commitment to engaging fully with the culture may be so initiated. Bloodlines back to aboriginal ancestors are not required for that.

[NiNjA]

Coooooool

[NiNjA]

Jun 6, 1970 4:17:29 GMT -5 The Mad Hatter said:

One has a far better chance to be invited to a Native Ceremony as a non-member than one has to be invited inside an LDS Temple as a non-member.

Ahhh.