User
Lecturer In Regular Oration(Lvl 4)
His Wholeyness The Caterpillaric Popo
Posts: 146
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Post by User on May 25, 2012 0:10:16 GMT -5
I think we let them off too easy. They should all be put to death.
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Post by The Mad Hatter on May 25, 2012 0:11:28 GMT -5
Are you in the shrooms again?
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Post by StormInateacup on May 25, 2012 1:58:49 GMT -5
I hear the FBI just issued a new terrorist warning that al Qaeda is planning a spectacular attack intended to critically damage the US economy.
Bit fucking late for that, innit? Obama's already launched a pre-emptive strike to ensure that your economy couldn't be any worse than it is right now.
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Post by Jenne on May 25, 2012 10:56:49 GMT -5
Meh, the economy in MOST places is shite on a stick. It wouldn't have been any better with McCain and the sock puppet in force, either. The pendulum swing to the right hasn't helped ANYONE in Yurp except Germany.
I think User was being ironic--he does that.
I actually don't give much of a shit for suicide bombers. To me, they are like every other fucker who decides to kill others for a stupid cause--and what sickens me is how they are sometimes made into these sainted iconic martyrs. I'm looking at YUO, Palestinians. Don't get me wrong, I think Israel has treated the Palestinians like shit for decades and need to be set straight on what the fuck apartheid looks like. The Likud party can kiss my ass. However, blowing yourself up is stupid wrong and therefore quite ineffectual, and most of the motivations behind it are also likewise--good riddance to the bomber, but I feel sad for the families of the folks milling around just doing their usual who get caught in the fray in the meantime. This tactic does NOT force the turnaround in situation those implementing it purport to desire. In point of fact, it makes people dig their heels in all the more.
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Post by Tofu DeBeast on May 25, 2012 11:20:21 GMT -5
Meh, the economy in MOST places is shite on a stick. It wouldn't have been any better with McCain and the sock puppet in force, either. The pendulum swing to the right hasn't helped ANYONE in Yurp except Germany. I think User was being ironic--he does that. I actually don't give much of a shit for suicide bombers. To me, they are like every other fucker who decides to kill others for a stupid cause--and what sickens me is how they are sometimes made into these sainted iconic martyrs. I'm looking at YUO, Palestinians. Don't get me wrong, I think Israel has treated the Palestinians like shit for decades and need to be set straight on what the fuck apartheid looks like. The Likud party can kiss my ass. However, blowing yourself up is stupid wrong and therefore quite ineffectual, and most of the motivations behind it are also likewise--good riddance to the bomber, but I feel sad for the families of the folks milling around just doing their usual who get caught in the fray in the meantime. This tactic does NOT force the turnaround in situation those implementing it purport to desire. In point of fact, it makes people dig their heels in all the more. 
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Post by StormInateacup on May 25, 2012 11:36:59 GMT -5
Well I think the wholesale slaughter of non combatants at any time by anyone, anywhere is a tad morally suspect. aka: utterly indefensible.
However. I might point out that suicide bombers at least display a degree more personal courage, commitment to the conflict and a general sort of willingness to put their own arses on the line of the cause they're "advancing" than say - oh I don't know...the pilots of super high tech planes dropping dirty bombs on erstwhile peaceful farming communities in Iraq and Afghanistan.
They're just actually "mass murdering bastard bombers" aren't they?
But they get a nifty uniform and a monthly salary and medals and shit - so they're not morally repugnant.
Personally I have some shitloads of issues with that false dichotomy right there.
Death by remote control seems a lot cleaner I guess...unless you're underneath the bomb bay doors.
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Post by The Mad Hatter on May 25, 2012 11:41:10 GMT -5
Catch up to the modern day. Now bomb runs are made by drones operated by some person who will never be in harms way.
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Post by Sita on May 25, 2012 12:11:20 GMT -5
Catch up to the modern day. Now bomb runs are made by drones operated by some person who will never be in harms way. I've seen the commercials for that. Some branch of service (I think Air Force, but not sure) is going after gamers by showing that their ability to use a joystick or controller can translate to a job in the armed forces flying and firing a drone. When I hear about stuff like that I always think of Ender's Game and how sometime soon we'll have a bunch of adults (and kids) thinking they are having a bit of harmless fun playing the latest Call of Duty, but it will be an actual real fight somewhere across the globe. |
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Post by Jenne on May 25, 2012 12:50:46 GMT -5
Well I think the wholesale slaughter of non combatants at any time by anyone, anywhere is a tad morally suspect. aka: utterly indefensible. However. I might point out that suicide bombers at least display a degree more personal courage, commitment to the conflict and a general sort of willingness to put their own arses on the line of the cause they're "advancing" than say - oh I don't know...the pilots of super high tech planes dropping dirty bombs on erstwhile peaceful farming communities in Iraq and Afghanistan. They're just actually "mass murdering bastard bombers" aren't they? But they get a nifty uniform and a monthly salary and medals and shit - so they're not morally repugnant. Personally I have some shitloads of issues with that false dichotomy right there. Death by remote control seems a lot cleaner I guess...unless you're underneath the bomb bay doors. Somehow I KNEW you'd put a juxtaposition of "war-sanctioned" deaths vs. suicide bombers in this discussion. But I don't draw the line at the comparison, and I think suicide bombing is NOT courageous. Nor do I think voluntarily going into the military to kill folks and be part of the war machine is honorable, etc. as it's made out to be, though it often brings OUT honor in people in saving their own skins and units. I know the culture well that brings these people in, desperate as they are, makes heroes out of women and children who are brainwashed (much like the military brainwashes) into thinking what they are doing is a-ok. The problem is the objective here--suicide bombing is ostensibly an attack on the innocent to prove a point that the person doing is holier, is worthier, and is sacrificial because they CHOOSE to be. But to me, that's like saying someone who poisons drinking water and drinks it themselves with the rest of the community, because they are pissed off at LIFE, is a hero. No, they're not A HERO. They're a fucking patsy-assed coward. I can't justify drone bombings, and no, I won't justify military service, but what I *will* do is protest that the suicide bombers are doing anything but murdering, in mass fashion, for the afterglow. |
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Post by BadBeast on May 25, 2012 15:50:36 GMT -5
If they were really "suicide" bombers, they would go out and blow themselves up in the fucking desert as a protest. Away from everyone else. The World would be a lot more sympathetic to their cause if they did that.
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Post by The Mad Hatter on May 25, 2012 16:12:44 GMT -5
If they were really "suicide" bombers, they would go out and blow themselves up in the fucking desert as a protest. Away from everyone else. The World would be a lot more sympathetic to their cause if they did that. You best not be talking about MY desert, wanker. |
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Post by StormInateacup on May 25, 2012 16:23:14 GMT -5
Well I think the wholesale slaughter of non combatants at any time by anyone, anywhere is a tad morally suspect. aka: utterly indefensible. However. I might point out that suicide bombers at least display a degree more personal courage, commitment to the conflict and a general sort of willingness to put their own arses on the line of the cause they're "advancing" than say - oh I don't know...the pilots of super high tech planes dropping dirty bombs on erstwhile peaceful farming communities in Iraq and Afghanistan. They're just actually "mass murdering bastard bombers" aren't they? But they get a nifty uniform and a monthly salary and medals and shit - so they're not morally repugnant. Personally I have some shitloads of issues with that false dichotomy right there. Death by remote control seems a lot cleaner I guess...unless you're underneath the bomb bay doors. Somehow I KNEW you'd put a juxtaposition of "war-sanctioned" deaths vs. suicide bombers in this discussion. But I don't draw the line at the comparison, and I think suicide bombing is NOT courageous. Nor do I think voluntarily going into the military to kill folks and be part of the war machine is honorable, etc. as it's made out to be, though it often brings OUT honor in people in saving their own skins and units. I know the culture well that brings these people in, desperate as they are, makes heroes out of women and children who are brainwashed (much like the military brainwashes) into thinking what they are doing is a-ok. The problem is the objective here--suicide bombing is ostensibly an attack on the innocent to prove a point that the person doing is holier, is worthier, and is sacrificial because they CHOOSE to be. But to me, that's like saying someone who poisons drinking water and drinks it themselves with the rest of the community, because they are pissed off at LIFE, is a hero. No, they're not A HERO. They're a fucking patsy-assed coward. I can't justify drone bombings, and no, I won't justify military service, but what I *will* do is protest that the suicide bombers are doing anything but murdering, in mass fashion, for the afterglow. I did not say that suicide bombers were courageous Jenne. I said they were no more and no less cowardly murderers of innocent bystanders than bomber pilots...or the clerks who programme the bomb bots. They however don't have fancy tailors, a pension plan and a regular pay cheque...and there aren't many veterans of suicide bombing campaigns to give ticker tape parades to on the Palestinian or Shiite version of Memorial Day. And yes I am sure they all think they are soldiers fighting an honourable and just war for the benefit of their respective peoples. I just don't happen to think that any of them are . But I will weigh in with the terribly controversial opinion that Hezbollah HAMAS (you fucking idiot Storm!!!) 1 - are the democratically elected Govt. of Palestine and not a terrorist organisation....unless we're going to characterise the Israeli and American Govt. and military as terrorists too. ... which I am btw, more than happy to do. 1:  I have been up all night and am not good at multi tasking...though I continue to persist in trying to do it....no chatting while writing posts is a good rule for my scatter brain - ...but one I am apparently utterly unable to stick to. Hezbollah  |
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Post by BadBeast on May 25, 2012 16:32:48 GMT -5
If they were really "suicide" bombers, they would go out and blow themselves up in the fucking desert as a protest. Away from everyone else. The World would be a lot more sympathetic to their cause if they did that. You best not be talking about MY desert, wanker. I wasn't. But if the Hat fits . . .  |
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Post by The Mad Hatter on May 25, 2012 16:34:28 GMT -5
Somehow I KNEW you'd put a juxtaposition of "war-sanctioned" deaths vs. suicide bombers in this discussion. But I don't draw the line at the comparison, and I think suicide bombing is NOT courageous. Nor do I think voluntarily going into the military to kill folks and be part of the war machine is honorable, etc. as it's made out to be, though it often brings OUT honor in people in saving their own skins and units. I know the culture well that brings these people in, desperate as they are, makes heroes out of women and children who are brainwashed (much like the military brainwashes) into thinking what they are doing is a-ok. The problem is the objective here--suicide bombing is ostensibly an attack on the innocent to prove a point that the person doing is holier, is worthier, and is sacrificial because they CHOOSE to be. But to me, that's like saying someone who poisons drinking water and drinks it themselves with the rest of the community, because they are pissed off at LIFE, is a hero. No, they're not A HERO. They're a fucking patsy-assed coward. I can't justify drone bombings, and no, I won't justify military service, but what I *will* do is protest that the suicide bombers are doing anything but murdering, in mass fashion, for the afterglow. I did not say that suicide bombers were courageous Jenne. I said they were no more and no less cowardly murderers of innocent bystanders than bomber pilots...or the clerks who programme the bomb bots. They however don't have fancy tailors, a pension plan and a regular pay cheque...and there aren't many veterans of suicide bombing campaigns to give ticker tape parades to on the Palestinian or Shiite version of Memorial Day. And yes I am sure they all think they are soldiers fighting an honourable and just war for the benefit of their respective peoples. I just don't happen to think that any of them are . But I will weigh in with the terribly controversial opinion that Hezbollah HAMAS (you fucking idiot Storm!!!) 1 - are the democratically elected Govt. of Palestine and not a terrorist organisation....unless we're going to characterise the Israeli and American Govt. and military as terrorists too. ... which I am btw, more than happy to do. 1: I have been up all night and am not good at multi tasking...though I continue to persist in trying to do it....no chatting while writing posts is a good rule for my scatter brain - ...but one I am apparently utterly unable to stick to. Hezbollah I wuz gonna... |
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Post by Jenne on May 25, 2012 18:59:06 GMT -5
There's more factions in the occupied territories than Hamas, but are we going to conveniently gloss over their idiotic campaigning through bloodshed and the glorification of said bloodshed in order to highlight just how fucked up war is...? I hope not. They ARE democratically elected, true, but that's after DECADES of 1) guerilla warfare and terrorism and 2) a lot of hand-wringing and cringing by the West that actually led to a small bit of "oh well throw them a bone" compensation.
Israel has imposed a Western-sactioned apartheid on the occupied territories and West Bank for generations. HOWEVER, I'm not going to say that suicide bombing is any BETTER or HONEST than any other murder that kills bystanders just because they CAN.
Organized warfare, by comparison, is plain different, though it has similar ends--righteous victory over the weak(er) in order to further your own aims. But I'm not going to equate Hamas and its (former?) terrorist tactics with the French Legionnaires, the Canadian Mounties or the LAPD. Why? because I know that those other "more lawful" law enforcement/guys with guns groups might have corruption and might be in some ways corrupted...but Hamas isn't always about furthering an agenda FOR the people...BY the people.
It's just REAL good at making it LOOK like it is.
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"Seize the moment. 'Cause tommorow you might be dead. " - Buffy
