|
|
Post by Random Panther on May 21, 2012 20:02:06 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by MOLEY on May 23, 2012 12:00:22 GMT -5
Well "blow me" At least it's prey can see it "coming" oooer! (I can put innuendo into anything.....I say! double oooer I'm on a roll  ) |
|
|
|
Post by The Mad Hatter on May 23, 2012 12:01:28 GMT -5
Some fool will kill it for fun.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 23, 2012 13:12:53 GMT -5
The coolest thing about this white Orca is the fact that he lives in a family group. Most herds, packs etc... in the animal kingdom drive off or outright kill any individual too different from the norm. In predatory groups an off colored member is too easily spotted by prey, in a prey group they are too easily spotted by predators, putting the whole group in harms way. This, to me, shows the extraordinary intelligence of Orcas and proves, to me, that they are as intelligent, if not more so, than we are.
What I find fascinating about whales in general is the fact that they have been in basically the same evolutionary form for much longer than we "higher life forms". They have had all that time to develop brains, while we were developing thumbs, they were developing brains, while we were moving to bi-pedal locomotion, they were thinking. I think they must be the most spiritually intelligent creatures on this planet.
|
|
|
|
Post by BadBeast on May 23, 2012 13:39:52 GMT -5
The coolest thing about this white Orca is the fact that he lives in a family group. Most herds, packs etc... in the animal kingdom drive off or outright kill any individual too different from the norm. In predatory groups an off colored member is too easily spotted by prey, in a prey group they are too easily spotted by predators, putting the whole group in harms way. This, to me, shows the extraordinary intelligence of Orcas and proves, to me, that they are as intelligent, if not more so, than we are. What I find fascinating about whales in general is the fact that they have been in basically the same evolutionary form for much longer than we "higher life forms". They have had all that time to develop brains, while we were developing thumbs, they were developing brains, while we were moving to bi-pedal locomotion, they were thinking. I think they must be the most spiritually intelligent creatures on this planet. Another thing to consider is the amount of leisure time they have, along with their brain size. Maybe an hour a day to scarf down a load of fish, and the rest of the day is your own. Also, before engined ships came along, one Whale at the South Pole, could communicate subsonically with another, at the North Pole. Fuck satellite technology, they were doing this for millions of years before we came along. Albeit with a basic series of clicks and grunts some people have suggested is a rudimentary language. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 23, 2012 13:44:58 GMT -5
I don't know that their "language" is "spoken", I think they may be able to communicate, at least over short distances, with, for want of a better word, thoughts. Maybe the clicks and grunts are vestigial, like our tail bones.
|
|
|
|
Post by BadBeast on May 23, 2012 13:52:41 GMT -5
Thye "clicks and grunts" comment was sarcasm. I'm sure their language is far more complex and versatile than ours. Ours is designed basically for one to one communication over short distances. Anything more than that, and we need Radio or amplification technology. Or the written word.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 23, 2012 14:27:31 GMT -5
I don't know you as well as I would like, BadBeast, so I didn't pick it up. I will say, I'm glad you threw it out there though. Not only do I appreciate sarcasm, especially the subtle kind, but, the concept of it being vestigial gave me some interesting ideas to explore.
I'm fascinated by Whales, especially Killer Whales, I think there is far more there intellectually than we can even imagine.
How I wish we humans had not even started polluting every aspect of the environments forced to sustain us.
Whales sing, how they sing, how diminished their song must be because of us. I cry for them.
|
|
|
|
Post by philipkduck on May 23, 2012 14:31:55 GMT -5
Thye "clicks and grunts" comment was sarcasm. I'm sure their language is far more complex and versatile than ours. Ours is designed basically for one to one communication over short distances. Anything more than that, and we need Radio or amplification technology. Or the written word. Noble Savage Fallacy Alert. If only we could be more like the whales. |
|
|
|
Post by Tofu DeBeast on May 23, 2012 14:45:20 GMT -5
Quite frankly I am offended by the name "killer whales". Anything that kills to eat falls in this category. Should not we therefore be called "killer hominids"  Except Meds of course, since he is vegetarian (we can only hope one day he will see the light and go full-vegan). We are all God's animals and we need to treat them with respec... oh crap God gave us dominion over the animals didn't he. OK then we are all part of this evoluti... wait wait evolution is all about winner take all innit? I don't know, save teh whales ore something.... |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 23, 2012 15:01:30 GMT -5
Interesting, Sir Duck, that you should mention that, because I was thinking about the juxtaposition of their intellectual capacity to their physical limitations. They can not manipulate the environment. They are wired to be obligate carnivores, I don't think they have much compassion for other, "lower" animals, if they did they would probably die out. No, I have no fairy dust and moonshine dreams of being an Orca, but, the entire planet is the poorer for the pollution, be it sound, light, chemical or otherwise, I cry for all of us. We've changed this planet for the worse, for every living thing and I think the Whales have lost the most for the longest and, in a way, are the saddest outcome, because of that very intellectual capacity they are graced/cursed with. They can't save themselves from us, and I think they know it.
|
|
|
|
Post by BadBeast on May 23, 2012 15:23:19 GMT -5
As for altruism or compassion, Orcas have often been documented targeting Mother Fin Whales, or Humpbacks with calves, and mercilessly hunting them to exhaustion, and killing the calf. Not even eating it, just killing it. The name "Killer Whale" isn't a misnomer, it's based on what we know about them.
They are, at the end of the day, an Apex predator, with an intelligence comparable to our own.
Other species of Dolphin have been recorded engaging in murder, warfare, infanticide, cannibalism, as have the higher primates. It seems intelligent social predators carry the patterns for the same socially aberrational behaviour, whatever the species.
I'm not making any moral judgments here at all, they're not worth shit when applied to another species. But killing an man would sit easier on my conscience than killing a Cetacean. Or an Elephant.
ETA. Just read that bolded part back and thought, it's funny, however we dress our behavior up, we still think like predators. Especially about other species.
|
|
|
|
Post by StormInateacup on May 23, 2012 23:28:33 GMT -5
I've been involved in three whale rescues. At Crowdy Head when I was a teenager was the first one.
They're remarkable animals. If a mother whale is among the euthenated, another female from the herd will adopt the orphaned calf and feed it, play with it, protect it as if it were her own. Just as humans will adopt an orphaned child. This is very rare in the animal kingdom, even among the higher apes.
They have such a close familial connection to the herd that if they can hear distressed members still stranded even when you get them back out to deep water they will return to try and be with the remaining members. That's why, no matter how appalling it feels, the ones assessed as too weak to survive the journey have to be killed on the shallows before any attempt can be made to take the bulk of the pod back out. And you need to take them all out at the same time. That's why it's such a labour intensive process. It can take hundreds of volunteers to successfully return 10 whales to the oceans.
And without any reference at all to altruism or fluffy greenie "oh whales are lovely" type sentiments, the oceans will die if the major predators are taken from it. If the oceans die, we'll die. That's not some hippie pipe dream - it's a scientific fact. Sharks and whales both need to be protected because without them we're all fucked.
|
|
|
|
Post by StormInateacup on May 24, 2012 0:43:46 GMT -5
Thye "clicks and grunts" comment was sarcasm. I'm sure their language is far more complex and versatile than ours. Ours is designed basically for one to one communication over short distances. Anything more than that, and we need Radio or amplification technology. Or the written word. Noble Savage Fallacy Alert. If only we could be more like the whales. Have you decided that since you have disagreed with another forum member on one specific topic that anything he has to say on any other issue is ripe for derisive misrepresentation? Because if so then that's kind of vindictive. And the only one in danger of being made to look naff or intellectually limited by taking that attitude is you. You expressed some opinions in another thread which several members found quite confronting and yes, objectionable. A few of us countered your arguments. BB took you to task rather harder than many others did. I think that if you look back at that thread and assess it without your blinkers on, you'll agree that you gave as well as you got given. But no one has been following your other posts around making snarky arsed comments on anything and everything you have to say. People need to realise that we are all free to disagree, even vehemently on a single topic without feeling that the participants in such a debate now need to watch their backs because grudges have been held and some kind of blood feud will be engaged in till the end times are upon us. Do I agree with your oft stated opinions about the subhuman nature of gypsies? No. Not at all. Does that mean that I now regard anything you have to say on any topic as wrong and worthless? Or that I am festering a personal dislike of you because of it? No. Far from it. I admire your comedic talent, your insights and your vast stores of knowledge. I enjoy your contributions no end. I recognise that you can and do often make this board very special. More to the point, I actually like you. Quite a lot in fact. We would all be the poorer if you ceased to make those contributions. I personally would be very sad to think that you have taken a set against me for expressing this opinion here. But I won't be cowed into not stating my honest opinion of this issue through the fear of that happening. I just can't see the justification for the sour tone that has crept into your interactions with BB. You appear to have made this a very personal vendetta. Furthermore you seem to want to allow that enmity to creep into every post you make - and more to the point, into every post he makes. I have been on boards where that attitude is encouraged and it makes the entire experience of posting there unpleasant. And pointless. I just don't understand why an adult of your obvious intelligence and myriad talents would be bothered doing that.  |
|
|
|
Post by philipkduck on May 24, 2012 7:32:22 GMT -5
Noble Savage Fallacy Alert. If only we could be more like the whales. Have you decided that since you have disagreed with another forum member on one specific topic that anything he has to say on any other issue is ripe for derisive misrepresentation? Because if so then that's kind of vindictive. And the only one in danger of being made to look naff or intellectually limited by taking that attitude is you. You expressed some opinions in another thread which several members found quite confronting and yes, objectionable. A few of us countered your arguments. BB took you to task rather harder than many others did. I think that if you look back at that thread and assess it without your blinkers on, you'll agree that you gave as well as you got given. But no one has been following your other posts around making snarky arsed comments on anything and everything you have to say. People need to realise that we are all free to disagree, even vehemently on a single topic without feeling that the participants in such a debate now need to watch their backs because grudges have been held and some kind of blood feud will be engaged in till the end times are upon us. Do I agree with your oft stated opinions about the subhuman nature of gypsies? No. Not at all. Does that mean that I now regard anything you have to say on any topic as wrong and worthless? Or that I am festering a personal dislike of you because of it? No. Far from it. I admire your comedic talent, your insights and your vast stores of knowledge. I enjoy your contributions no end. I recognise that you can and do often make this board very special. More to the point, I actually like you. Quite a lot in fact. We would all be the poorer if you ceased to make those contributions. I personally would be very sad to think that you have taken a set against me for expressing this opinion here. But I won't be cowed into not stating my honest opinion of this issue through the fear of that happening. I just can't see the justification for the sour tone that has crept into your interactions with BB. You appear to have made this a very personal vendetta. Furthermore you seem to want to allow that enmity to creep into every post you make - and more to the point, into every post he makes. I have been on boards where that attitude is encouraged and it makes the entire experience of posting there unpleasant. And pointless. I just don't understand why an adult of your obvious intelligence and myriad talents would be bothered doing that. I would have thought that he wouldn't really need his Mum to stick up for him, what with him being such a big bad beast and all, and he could answer me himself if he wanted to. |
|
) 
Except Meds of course, since he is vegetarian (we can only hope one day he will see the light and go full-vegan). We are all God's animals and we need to treat them with respec... oh crap God gave us dominion over the animals didn't he. OK then we are all part of this evoluti... wait wait evolution is all about winner take all innit? I don't know, save teh whales ore something....